An ostrich, trough lollies and winning the FA Cup: an interview with former Tottenham Hotspur midfielder David Howells, Guilfest, 2024

Image: Jayne Houghton

An FA Cup winner and top-level footballer for 15 years with Tottenham Hotspur and Southampton, David Howells was on Saturday night TV – Match Of The Day – as regularly as Jonathan Ross. Howellsy joins us at Guilfest to talk of his experiences of Gazza, what it was like to play for Terry Venables and his appreciation of Dire Straits

Apparently, Tottenham Hotspur always won FA Cup Finals when the year ended with a ‘1’ – and 1991 continued the tradition. David Howells played midfield for Spurs in that game against Nottingham Forest alongside Paul Gascoigne and behind Gary Lineker. Having never had the call-up from England, he must be one of the finest footballers of his generation to never represent his country. We’ll get to that shortly.

Howellsy turned up at Guilfest’s literary tent in shades, white Nikes, blue polo shirt and navy shorts. What was instantly clear was that this son of Guildford, 56 years old, has kept himself in decent shape and is no stranger to public speaking. He is worth the Guilfest entrance fee alone.

Lee Gale: OK, something a little bit different now from poetry. I’ve met some great footballers in my time but I don’t think I’ve ever come face-to-face with a player who’s actually won the FA Cup. You played at Tottenham from 1985 to 1998 and your team-mates have included Paul Gascoigne, Gary Lineker and Matt Le Tissier. Welcome David Howells to Guilfest. So rumour has it that you’re local. Is that true?
David Howells: Yes, very much so. I went to school about half a mile down the road in Bellfields, what used to be called Bishop Reindorp School, and I lived in Guilford until I was 16.

Are there many famous footballers from Guilford?
Not really. It’s not a hotbed of football. There’s lots of football supporters and a good variation of teams that they support. The local team, Guilford City, disbanded in the early Seventies. It reformed and the people that run it are now trying to get it back to its former glories. I was aware of John Hollins, who went to school with my mum. He was a great player and a lovely man. We lost John last year. He was a Guilford boy. There was Mick Mills who captained Ipswich and played for England as well. He was from Godalming, where I live now. But not too many players.

How did you get into football?
Same as most boys. Just playing around. I was lucky to have a brother of a similar age. That’s all we did – play football in the winter and in the summer play cricket. That’s what you used to do after school. You went out and played football, had a kick around, come back in when it was dark, covered in mud. I played football from as soon as I can remember. My dad was a goalkeeper. He played locally to a decent standard. He played for Guildford City, actually.

How were you spotted by Spurs?
I was doing well. I’d got into the district and county teams and I was playing in county trials for Surrey, up at Roehampton, and I had a really good trial. I scored a good goal. We were Spurs fans. Dad was a Spurs fan so me and my brother had no choice. After the trials a scout approached my dad, a scout from Spurs, and he showed his card. He said to my dad, “I’m from Tottenham Hotspur. We’d love your son to come up for a trial in the Easter holidays.”

How old were you?
I was 11. I don’t know how Dad could contain his excitement being a Spurs fan, but he didn’t tell me till we got home. He said, “I don’t know if you fancy this but you’ve been invited for a trial at Tottenham.” I went for the trial and flunked it. I’d never seen players like it. They were mostly London boys and seemed bigger, stronger and quicker than anything else I’d ever seen. A lot of black boys and we didn’t have many of them in Guilford. They were brilliant. I just didn’t show up in the trial but I muddled my way through. I was given the final trial. I was always a central midfielder but they played me as a winger in the final trial game because they had a space, I think. I had a brilliant final game. I roasted the fullback and from that moment Spurs always considered me an attacking player. I was a winger and a striker at Tottenham. When I came back to Guilford county, I was always a midfielder.

You played more than 300 games. Is there a particular match that stands out for you?
I was lucky enough to win the FA Cup in 1991. Winning finals are the best days you can have. It’s what you dream of when you’re a boy. I remember watching the FA Cup Final as a kid and going out straight after the game trying to emulate the action I’d just seen. It was the most important football day in the diary. Everybody looked forward to FA Cup Final day. Then I was a part of it. That would have to be the ultimate memory but the Semi-Final that year was a huge game as well. We played Arsenal, local rivals, deadly rivals, and they were a great team. They were just about to win the League and we got drawn against them in the Semi-Final. We had to play the game at Wembley, which was only ever reserved for the Final back in those days. We beat them 3-1 which is still remembered fondly. But that for me is on a par with the Final because of who it was against. It was the magnitude of the occasion.

Were games against Arsenal always different?
Definitely. Even at 11. We’d have games against Arsenal and you knew even then that it was different – different to every other game. I grew up with that. I loved those games. I’ve won plenty and I lost plenty. But it was always the game that I personally looked forward to the most.

You made your debut for Tottenham when you were 18 – and scored the winner.
The winner, yes. It was against Sheffield Wednesday, away. It was in February 1986 and in the snow. They cleared the snow off the lines and you played with an orange ball so that you could see it in the snow. That sort of thing doesn’t happen any more. It was a surreal thing for me because I was in the changing room with people like Ray Clemence, Steve Perryman, Chris Waddle and Glenn Hoddle. These are players that I was collecting as football cards a couple of years earlier. And now I’m sitting in the changing room ready to go out and play in the first team match with them. There’s a pinch-yourself thing and you have to get yourself out of that, that what-am-I-doing-here? mentality and tell yourself, “You’re here because you deserve to be and you need to play properly.” It was a tricky game because of the pitch. We were 1-0 down at half-time. We equalised just after half-time and with about 15 to 20 minutes to go, I scored the winner. And again, it’s one of those crazy moments. Right foot. A first-time finish from a Paul Allen cross. A good goal.

Did you have a way of celebrating your goals?
No. I wasn’t that prolific. I didn’t ever get around to having my own celebration. I scored 27 in my career.

What was it like when the ball hit the back of the net?
It’s the best feeling in the game. Some goals are more important than others. I was lucky enough to score twice once in my career, against Nottingham Forest, 2-1. We were 1-0 down. I equalised and I’d also cleared one off the line. And then in the last minute, we got a corner. I went up for the corner and then I headed it in for the winner. The game was over, you know, they barely had a chance to kick off again. To score that type of goal is an incredible feeling. Any goal is great but to score what you know is absolutely the winner is irreplaceable.

Chris Waddle was on the radio a couple of months ago talking about his preparation before an evening game for Tottenham. He’d go to the pub at one o’clock, have a meat pie and chips and three pints of Guinness. Then went home for a sleep. Did you do anything similar?
I’m sure he didn’t do that when he played for Marseille. Where would you get the meat pie? We would always try and have a sleep before an evening game. We had strict rules that we had to abide to in terms of drinking before games and we weren’t allowed to drink 48 hours before a game so we didn’t… most of the time.

Were you favourites going into the FA Cup Final in 1991 against Nottingham Forest?
I think they were slight favourites but there wasn’t a lot in it. We were both evenly matched teams. They were a really exciting young team with Nigel Clough and a young Roy Keane breaking through, and Stuart Pearce being left-back was a powerhouse presence for them. We had a good team as well. We had Gascoigne, who was possibly the best player in the world at the time, Gary Lineker, England’s No.9, so we weren’t afraid of anybody. We’d played them twice that season. Really good games in the League, including the one where I score two. We respected them massively, respected their manager Brian Clough, but we still thought we were going to win. We never went into a game where we didn’t think we could win it. Ever.

Did you ever meet Brian Clough?
Not properly. I’ve spoken to a lot of the boys who played under him, who say he was a unique character. Nobody did it like Brian Clough. He’d always say hello. He was pleasant. He’d congratulate us if we won. I would’ve loved to have played for him.

How did you deal with nerves before going into the Cup Final?
I don’t really remember being that nervous. But I must have been. With the Cup Final there was so much going on around it that the game almost becomes incidental. We were all excited about meeting Prince Charles and Princess Diana, who were the royal guests. I was concerned about things like tickets for family and friends. There’s a lot to take your mind off it. Then the day of the Cup Final – excitement probably replaces nerves.

Can you explain what it’s like to walk out onto the Wembley turf – the old Wembley?
There’s that long walk up the tunnel from behind the goal and then out across the greyhound track before you get anywhere near where you stop and line up. For that Cup Final we sang “Abide With Me” on the pitch as well as the National Anthem. So we were on the pre-match stuff for a long time. We were out there for a while before we got going. Again you’re looking for your friends and family in the crowd. It’s mind-blowing really, thinking, “Yes, this is me, having this experience, doing this.” Again you have to get focused on the match in hand.

Didn’t Tottenham do a record that year?
Yes, Chas & Dave did it. “When The Year Ends In One”, because it was supposedly lucky for Spurs when the year ends in one, and is based on one of their great tunes “London Girls”. It was the same tune but with different words. We did Blue Peter and Top Of The Pops. It was brilliant. Great fun.

Terry Venables was manager. Do you remember what he said before the match?
Well, yes. Something along the lines of preparation isn’t just before the game, it’s the weeks leading into the game. Terry was a great manager. We all loved him. Speak to anybody who played football for Terry, they all say he was the best. He knew how to speak to you. He had real charisma. He was genuinely funny and he could hold court in a room with all sorts of different people in it. Brilliant tactically. He knew whether you needed a cuddle or a kick up the bum. I needed a kick up the bum and he gave me one, but he gave it to me in such a nice way that I loved him even more for it and wanted to do well for him. Massively missed but what a man, what a fantastic man.

You played in midfield with Paul Gascoigne.
He was the best player I’ve played with by a mile. He was a genius. As often happens with geniuses, they have flaws in their character. He was a lovely guy, very generous, very funny, crazy, absolutely crazy. He had no weakness to his game, he travelled with the ball in crowded areas, he could score every type of goal. He didn’t mind the physical side, long and short passing, and a brilliant attitude to football as well. If there were people mucking about in training for instance, if people weren’t pulling their weight, he’d be on them in a flash because football was very important to him. But having said that, he could cause havoc. We were good friends with Steve Sedgley, who played for Tottenham in our era. He was a great character and one of those people that every team needs. He’d make me laugh on long, boring journeys, or on tours, when things were dragging out a little. But Gazza would always take the mickey out of Sedge for having a really long neck.

A long neck?
Quite useful for a centre-half. So one day before training Gazza decided that he’d pop into Paradise Wildlife Park, which was near where he lived, and borrow an ostrich, like you do. He knew people at Paradise Wildlife Park so he popped in there and said, “We need to borrow this ostrich.” So they put the ostrich in Gazza’s car. You can imagine pulling up next to Gazza at the traffic lights and there’s an ostrich in the front seat as well. He gets to training. He gets the No.6 shirt out, with SEDGLEY on the back, and puts it on the ostrich. We’re all out ready to start training and Terry Venables is out there, and there’s no Gazza. All of a sudden he comes out with this ostrich with a Steve Sedgley shirt on and it set off running round the pitch. “Sedge, Sedge!” And this ostrich is running around with a Sedgley shirt on and they couldn’t catch it. They couldn’t catch it and Venables is standing there with his arms crossed.

Was that fairly normal behaviour?
He was so hyperactive you couldn’t share a room with him. Players used to share rooms in hotels on away trips. We used to take a young player who wasn’t part of the playing squad to room with Gascoigne because if you were with him, you’re getting no sleep. In the year we won the Cup we played Portsmouth away and Justin Edinburgh got the job. He wasn’t part of the matchday squad – and that’s another person who’s no longer with us. Justin got the job to room with Gazza and we’d booked a hotel with a squash court next door, in a health club. So after dinner, Gazza’s said to Justin, “Come on, we’re going to play squash.” So they go off and play squash for three and a half hours. Get back to the room just before midnight. Justin’s knackered, but Gazza’s then got him doing burpees and sit-ups in the room and he gets no sleep. But that’s what’s expected.

And that’s the night before a big match?
The next day it’s the 5^th Round of the FA Cup. Pompey are in the league below. The pitch is dreadful. It’s an awful pitch and muddy, and in the warm-up Terry Fenwick broke his leg just running through the mud. Fen was playing right-back. So Terry said, “Fen’s broke his leg. Where’s Justin?” And we’re like, “He’s asleep on the bus. He’s knackered.” “He’s got to play.” “What do you mean he’s got to play?” So we have to go to the bus and wake Justin up. He played left-back. Pat van den Hauwe went across to right-back. We were 1-0 down at half-time and we’re going out of the Cup. It was really hard, a tough game. In the second half, Gascoigne steps up, scores one brilliant goal, dribbles through most of their team, then scores another brilliant goal. Justin did OK. He stayed in the team, got an FA Cup winners’ medal – so it’s funny how games go. He’d been up with Gascoigne all night – and Gazza was the one who scored two brilliant goals to win us the game.

You also played with Gary Lineker – a very different player to Gazza.
Different, very different. Completely opposite, lovely man. But different to all of us. He took very seriously his responsibilities as England captain. He was clean cut. People forget what a great striker he was, what a brilliant goalscorer he was, but he was different to the rest of us. We’d be having a meal. Sometimes people will come up for autographs and photos while you’re eating. It’s a bit rude but generally most of the lads would sign and get on with their dinner. He would say. “No, go away, I’m eating,” which is fair enough, really. But none of us had the bravado to say that.

Then you moved to Southampton. What was the reason for that?
My contract was up at Spurs. I didn’t want to leave. There was a new manager, Christian Gross. He didn’t fancy me as a player. That happens in football and I’ve no hard feelings about it but I felt that I still could have done a job for a couple more years. I didn’t really fall out with him. He managed to fall out with Jürgen Klinsmann and Gary Mabbutt. So the three of us were all leaving at the same time at the end of that 1998 season. It was a shame to leave like that because he got the sack soon after. I felt like if I’d hung around the new manager would have probably liked me and I could have got a couple more years there but that’s football and that’s just the way it goes. I always liked Southampton as a club. They were playing at The Dell at the time, and I knew quite a few of their players. I was close with Le Tiss. He was a terrific player, one of the most naturally gifted players I played with.

You played more than 300 games in your career, solidly at Tottenham for years, and yet you never got an England call. Does it upset you?
It does upset me. I played every other level, u-18s, u-21s, even England B. I felt there were a couple of players chosen when I was in contention who weren’t as good as me. People like Carlton Palmer got 18 caps, and there was a player at Palace, Geoff Thomas. I felt I was better than them. It was a tough one to take. But then again, the manager has to pick what he feels is right so I’m not bitter, just disappointed. I had a wonderful career and if somebody said to me when I was a boy, “That’s what’s going to happen to you,” I’d have snapped your hand off. But you’re right. Having played regularly for Tottenham, with the players I played with, I think I was consistent enough to have got a game or two for England.

Towards the end of your career you had a knee injury.
That’s one of the reasons why Spurs didn’t really think I was worth offering a new contract to, that they thought my knee had gone and as it turned out, they were probably right. I went to Southampton and my knee deteriorated quickly, and I was only able to play about 15 games for them. I went on loan to Bristol City, but I was limping. I had a great time there and still thought I could get my knee better and play at Southampton for the next season. But it just got worse and I retired in 2000.

Do you make the decision yourself?
It was an easy decision to make. The knee had gone. Glenn Hoddle had taken over at Southampton as manager and I knew him well. When he came in, he said, “Are you sure it’s what you want?” And I said, “Of course, it’s not what I want.” But all the options had run out in terms of the operations that I’d had. There was nothing left that they could do to make it OK to even get by for a certain amount of time. I’d have every injection, every operation, but there’s no cartilage left in there, it’s bone against bone and it’s just too painful to run.

Do you feel that now?
It’s not too bad. I manage it. It’s a bit of a gnarly old knee, but I can get by.

What do you do these days?
I’ve moved back to this area. I love it here. I was always going to come back at the end of my career. I worked overseas for a number of years, predominately in Spain coaching, but I was based in Guildford. I got a job at Charterhouse, a school over at Godalming, and I was director of football there. I worked there for seven years. Currently I work part-time in a PE department at Farnham Heath End School in Farnham, which is a great school, just a normal secondary school. It’s a school that’s going in the right direction and I love working there.

Do you still have an association with Tottenham – you were saying earlier you go to the home games?
In an ambassadorial role. I work on matchdays. There’s a lovely group of us old players. Some were my heroes, people like Pat Jennings and Martin Chivers – he was my big hero when I was a little boy. So when I walk in the room and see Martin Chivers, I’m trying to keep it cool. It’s lovely to see those guys. Around ten of us do that on a regular basis and we keep in touch. We have a good golf society. It’s just great to still be involved with the club. I do a bit of work with the global coaching team as well.

We should move on to music as we’re at a music festival. So you’re no stranger to Guilfest.
I’ve been here plenty of times. One of my best memories here was 2001 when Pulp played. That was my first Guilfest, shortly after I’d retired, and I was thrilled to be able to come and Pulp were amazing that year. I’ve been a few times since and I’m pleased to see it back. I think it’s something that we hold dearly as local people. It’s a really wonderful thing for our area.

I read on your Twitter page that you were a fan of Steve Wright, the DJ. Are you a Radio 2 listener?
If I’m in the car. I turn Jeremy Vine off. Not because I’m not interested in the issues, I just don’t really like Jeremy Vine. I’m sure there are plenty of people who do.

Do you own music – have you got a record collection?
I inherited a wonderful record collection from my dad who was a big influence on the music I listen to. His taste was eclectic. He took me and my brother to see Dire Straits when they played at the Old Civic Hall in Guilford many years ago. That was an incredible concert and Dire Straits are one of my favourite bands. Dad was instrumental in all the things musical that I like.

Are you a bit of a gig-goer?
Well, I used to have an agent, Eric Hall. He was a famous agent and had a catchphrase: “Monster. monster.” He was a really good man, Eric, and we were at a charity dinner one night. Some tickets came up for a concert at the Royal Albert Hall with Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr and Liza Minnelli. I love Frank Sinatra, through Dad. I didn’t know anything about it but Eric ended up buying these seats. Two days before the concert he said, “Are you busy on Wednesday night?” I said, “No, I’m not busy.” “OK, you’re coming out with me.” He took me to the concert and we went to the party afterwards and sadly Frank wasn’t there, but Sammy Davis Jr was and I was able to meet him and Liza Minelli. To be able to say I went to the Royal Albert Hall and saw Sinatra and Sammy Davis Jr and Liza Minnelli, and went to the aftershow party – again, just surreal things, and when I told my dad, he was, “What, you did what?”

What are your thoughts on the Euros?
I mean we’ve not been great but I think we could muddle through it. It would not surprise me if we got to the Final the way it’s fallen for us again. We should win tomorrow [v Slovakia]. I’m confident we will win then the following weekend it’s probably Italy. As great a footballing nation as the Italians are, if we play as good as know we can, we’ll beat them. ‘Confident’ is probably the wrong word but it wouldn’t surprise me if they went all the way.

Will you be here watching the match tomorrow at Guilfest’s Euro Soccer Tent?
No, I’ve got a prior commitment playing in a charity golf day. We’ve moved the tee time so we’ll have time to watch it – but I’d love to be coming down here tomorrow. I think it’ll be an incredible day.

We have a few minutes for some questions from the audience…

Audience member 1: I thought I’d ask about your pension. Did you make much money out of the game? Could you give us an idea about what sort of pension you get?
Well, it’s the same with most pensions that you get out what you put in. We were we were lucky that the PFA had a non-contributory scheme that we were able to tap into when we retired. I was well-paid. It’s not near the levels as they are now. When I went to Southampton, that was the best paid I ever was and I was on £10,000 a week, which is still great money but when you think about what they get now. But good luck to them.

Audience member 1: But what sort of money do you actually get from the pension?
What are you, a tax man? I get by [audience laugh].

Audience member 2: Who was the hardest player you ever played against?
Good one. There’s few players who spring to mind. When I was a youngster coming through there was Jimmy Case, who played for Liverpool, Southampton and Brighton and I’ve gotten to know Jimmy really well through the ex-Southampton players’ society and he’s a terrific character. But he was hard and also clever. He’d rake you down the back of your Achilles when the ref’s not looking. I’d never seen anything like that as a young player coming through. There was also a player at Wimbledon, John Fashanu. He fractured Gary Mabbutt’s eye socket and cheekbone, then he rolled over and pretended that he was injured as well. He was brutal – a very hard physical man. Another was Mick Harford. He was a big centre forward and I was playing against him one day. There was a goal kick and I’ve gone up to head it and Mick’s gone round the front of me and – bump! Broke my nose. I knew Mick and I’ve always made it my business to be on good terms with the tough guys. I’m on the floor, the physio’s there, there’s blood everywhere and Mick’s come over. “Sorry mate, I thought you were Paul Stewart.” I was, “That’s alright Mick, no problem, no problem…” You don’t really see hard men now.

Audience member 3: You mentioned Geoff Thomas. Do you think if you got his place in the England squad you’d have got within 50 yards of the goal with that effort?
So Geoff was famously through one-on-one with the goalkeeper and I think he tried to lob it and it went out for a throw. I felt for him. I’m not saying I should have been playing instead of him but I’d have done better than that! Nice guy Geoff, by the way.

Shall we end with one last Gazza story?
Yes, I’ve got a quick Gascoigne and Sedge story. We finished training one day and one of Sedge’s party tricks was, he’d eat anything. He’d pick a worm out of the ground and eat it. So we’ve gone for lunch after training one day. We went to a little wine bar in Waltham Abbey. There’s me, Paul Stewart, Gazza and Steve Sedgley and we sat along the bar and we’ve all had lasagne. Four of us have finished but Sedge is still eating. It was in the days when you could smoke in the bar so Gazza lit up a cigar and he keeps tapping the ash into Sedge’s lasagne and Sedge has carried on eating. Gazza puts the butt into the lasagne and he eats that as well. Gazza says, “You are disgusting – you’ll eat anything, won’t you?” And Sedge said, “Yes probably.” So Gazza said, “I’ll tell you what you wouldn’t eat. You know the blue things in the urinals…” We were, “No…” Sedge said, “I might do.” Gazza says, “I’ll bet you £100.” So we go off into the toilet and he scoops up a handful of these blue things. Oh my God. We went back to the bar and Gazza wrote him out a cheque for £100. And he ate the cheque as well.